Posts by Joe Grundy

38

Paradise Won't Be "Instant"

by cameo-d in

i have heard that "paradise" will be achieved gradually; that it will take all of the thousand years to reach that state of perfection.. .

now, while you may be convinced that it will take all that time to bring the earth back to it's pristine state....suppose it applies to humans as well?.

imagine this scenerio: wounds and broken bones heal slowly and gradually; your bags and sags are still there, but since you have seen results of other people, you hang on that the promise will be for you, too.

Joe Grundy

20 Billion? They must be joking!

I have recently been reading various reports expressing concern about the world population reaching 8 or 9 billion, and the problems which will arise because of food, energy and water resources.

An example: I live on an island with a population (probably) of less than I million. As recently as a few months ago our reservoirs were (well) below 10% capacity. We had mains water about 33% of the time, other parts of the island were not so lucky. We have had an unusually 'wet' winter, so we're up to about 20% capacity and mains water most days. But we have to build another desalination plant, which runs on (oil-powered) electricity.

And this is a (theoretically at least) 'first world' country and part of the EU.

I accept, of course, that in the 'fantasyland' that is JW doctrine everything may be perfect. But (as always) selectively (and corruptly, IMHO) quoting scientific or pseudo-scientific stuff to try and predict and support their fantasies is dishonest.

Better they just say 'the paradise fairy will ensure everything will be wonderful'. And you know what? I doubt that many convinced, or scared, or brainwashed, or apathetic dubs would challenge them.

38

Paradise Won't Be "Instant"

by cameo-d in

i have heard that "paradise" will be achieved gradually; that it will take all of the thousand years to reach that state of perfection.. .

now, while you may be convinced that it will take all that time to bring the earth back to it's pristine state....suppose it applies to humans as well?.

imagine this scenerio: wounds and broken bones heal slowly and gradually; your bags and sags are still there, but since you have seen results of other people, you hang on that the promise will be for you, too.

Joe Grundy

Thanks for the info.

I am just thinking about how different I was between the ages of 25 and 33, and now. And I don't think I want to be angel-like thanks.

And procreation will be a la Huxley's 'Brave New World'. Or perhaps there won't be any and the population of paradise will be limited to 6-7 million. That should be interesting, especially if there is no mechanised transport. Small isolated communities with little contact with each other. I wonder if there may be a danger that they may start/adapt/revise their own religions? The whole thing could start all over again ...

It seems strange to me as an outsider that as a particularly eschatological religion the dubs haven't got down to detail on this.

SBF: I have often found that one man's 'perfection' is another man's 'pedantic'. Just imagine spending eternity (or even 1000 years) in a community of pedants.

38

Paradise Won't Be "Instant"

by cameo-d in

i have heard that "paradise" will be achieved gradually; that it will take all of the thousand years to reach that state of perfection.. .

now, while you may be convinced that it will take all that time to bring the earth back to it's pristine state....suppose it applies to humans as well?.

imagine this scenerio: wounds and broken bones heal slowly and gradually; your bags and sags are still there, but since you have seen results of other people, you hang on that the promise will be for you, too.

Joe Grundy

Could someone clarify something for me please?

I understand (I think) the JW teaching that after Armageddon (most) dubs will live for ever in the new paradise. But what age will they be? The same age as they were at Armageddon, or some 'ideal age'?

Also, I think, in the new paradise there will be procreation. In the world now there are varying ages for marriage. As low as 13 in some parts of the US, I understand, probably lower than that in some cultures, and higher than that in others. I guess that some members of all these cultures are dubs. So in the new paradise will the age for procreation depend on your previous culture and practice or will a new 'across the board' age be set?

Just idle thoughts.

25

wife asked me a good question about control mechanism of DFing.....

by oompa in

when i told her i would never go back and meetings make me sick, i mentioned how df was a control mechanism meant to keep people in the org.......and that was when i told her i really dont want to be df'd.

i prob should have said it was used to keep people in line....actually should have never told her what i thought df was.......cause the conversation was already bad....... but she asked "why would the gb use it or view it as a "control mechanism?

" what would be their motive?...i have always been taught it is just the bibles way of keeping the cong.

Joe Grundy

'The primary reason for disfellowshipping is to "keep the congregation clean." That's code for keeping the unbelieving
one or the one practicing actions against WT policy from affecting the congregation members- taking them out with him.'

I never was a JW, and now I'm an atheist.

Considering this logically (and perhaps 'logic' and 'JW' should not appear in the same sentence) IF the JWs were the one true religion, under the protection of an omniscient and all-powerful god, directed on earth by some 'chosen ones' with direct comms with said god, why should they be scared that some individual with an enquiring mind could taint them?

Their writings say that god can and did strike people down at will (though apparently he got a bit more liberal in later years) so what have they got to fear? There were 'striking downs' in the NT, and even here in Paphos Jesus Barabbas allegedly got blinded in a show-down with Saul/Paul.

On the basis that their god could instantly kill/make dumb/whatever anyone who was a threat I think that they're displaying a lack of faith in their own teachings.

Oh, and when things go wrong or get difficult, don't the hierarchy teach that god is testing them and 'tempering them in the fire of faith'? Couldn't letting some thinkers and questioners loose among the 'faithful' be seen in the same (new) light?

Perhaps the D/F practice is all about control, after all. I like the analogy quoted about the schoolkids choosing to exclude just one kid.

14

WTF? Anyone else get this?

by AWAKE&WATCHING in

got this in a pm about three days ago so sorry if it's been discussed.

from: scott williams., .

country: ivory coast .

Joe Grundy

It's a '419' scam.

Try www.scambuster419.co.uk/ and many other similar sites for more info (and a good laugh).

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

I am not and never have been a JW, so please take my opinions with that in mind. I am also now a 'worldly' atheist.

I have been to a couple of JW 'meetings' - and a couple was all it took to recognise the brainwashing that was going on. Interestingly, at the first one some old dear got the microphone and started mentioning Russell, 'our beloved pastor' but she soon lost the mic. All very different to the spontaneity I was used to.

(A sad side-note. One of my friends here, an 80+ guy, had the privilege of reading out the paragraph in the WTBTS mag at the meeting. He was a really nice guy, and I am friends with his widow. Last year, after having being diagnosed with terminal cancer, he drowned himself in our communal swimming pool. Poor old bugger, I think, after wasting so much of his life devoted to a lie. And the faithful and loving JWs who would rally round the widow? Forget it! It's us 'worldlies' who do that. Rant over.)

I am Welsh, and we have a tradition of singing and music. If you have never heard a Welsh Male Voice Choir, you have missed out. And if you've never heard the festival of 1000 Welsh male voices singing old hymns, you won't understand.

There is a word in Welsh - 'hiraeth' - which means the longing for the homeland. It is inextricably linked with old Welsh hymns. Even if you question the reality of the words, it can get to you.

And, I guess, that's true of much church/chapel music.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

Just a comment on the title of this thread.

'Shepherding' is of course short for 'sheep-herding'. Have you ever seen a real shepherd working with sheep-dogs and a flock of sheep? It is quite amazing. The shepherd has the overview and communicates with the sheep-dogs by voice or whistled commands. The dogs herd the flock until they are exactly where required - and can separate individual sheep into pens, etc., even though the dogs don't understand why they're doing it. Trained sheep-dogs will herd sheep even in the absence of the shepherd, although, of course, the results will be random and of no practical use - it's just what they are trained and conditioned to do: 'there's a sheep, I'll go herd it somewhere'.

I don't know whether this analogy is of use or not, but I offer it anyway.

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

And sometimes 50 is an ideal age to sit down and re-evaluate your life and do something about it (in my experience, anyway).

45

i am 20 minutes away from a sheparding call........

by oompa in

jw
friends

first one in at least 5 years.......wife does not want to sit in and i just told her if she does not, then i am not either.....this loss of faith thingy has really been rough on our marriage.......i have decided to not bring up a single issue i have........i will relate to them my illustration of the taxi driver who keeps giving out bad directions i posted yesterday.......i think what will surprise them maybe is that my loss of faith goes way beyond wt.......i have lost virtually faith in the bible and god......one has already told the "first place to start is to get going to the meetings again!"....lmao!!!.........

i hope their programed brains can grasp that maybe you need faith in a god first.....then find out what method (or book) he is using to educate us if he wants to....and then if you feel the need....look around to find out if there is a group of folks who all have similar beliefs.........this should be interesting...........oompa.

Joe Grundy

Oompa - I never was a JW so have no personal experience.

I am worldly (very), 'bad association' (for sure).

But I feel for you and extend support and best wishes.

36

How did you feel about attending another church?

by digderidoo in

jw
friends

this question is for those who have attended another church since leaving the jw's.. i have considered attending a local church, firstly out of curiosity and secondly because i do enjoy discussing the bible with people and learning new thoughts on scripture.. the only thing that stops me though is crossing that line.

i guess it was a bit like when i first posted here, it took me ages to pluck up the courage and now what was the big deal?.

did anyone else have this feeling before attending another church, that feeling of crossing the line of no return.

Joe Grundy

I am not and never was a JW, so take my opinions with that in mind.

When I was a 'christian' in the general not JW meaning I went to a number of churches/chapels/call them what you will.

More often than not, though I could not share their beliefs, I was genuinely impressed by the genuine warmth, sincerity and care that many of the people exhibited.